Harold Budd: A TMA Interview

Listen Up Toledo  |  09/28/2018 12:00 pm

Scott Boberg, Toledo Museum of Art’s Manager of Programs and Audience Engagement, spoke by phone with musician, composer, and poet Harold Budd. Budd will give a career-spanning performance on Saturday, Oct. 6 in the Peristyle Theater at TMA. At 6:30 p.m., he will give a pre-concert talk, and the performance will begin at 8 p.m. Tickets are $15 for TMA members and $35 for the general public and are available at www.toldeomuseum.org.

Learn more about Harold Budd's visit.

*This interview has been edited for clarity.

Scott:  It’s an exciting thing that you’re coming here, to Toledo. I’m a Southern California kid too, born in Hollywood, who found his way to Toledo.

Harold (laughs): That’s not next door.

Scott: I love the coincidence that you are the caretaker of the Monument House, which is a building on the edge of Joshua Tree National Park designed by an architect from Toledo, Josh Sweitzer.

Harold: That’s right. He told me that he remembers the museum as being a really great one, so I’m anxious to be there.

Scott: In the late seventies I bought my first Harold Budd record, The Pavilion of Dreams …

Harold: Oh my gosh…

Scott: That was my first introduction to your work. I was living in Los Angeles, but I spent a lot of time in Joshua Tree. I have such vivid memories of that landscape. Can you talk about the role of place in the music you make, and the poetry that you write?

Harold: The poetry certainly has a sense of place. The music, absolutely not. No relationship whatsoever, as far as I’m concerned.

Scott: So the music is independent of place, even though there may be a reference in the title.

Harold: Oh yes, titles come before there’s any music at all. If it’s a good title, and I have it written down in a book somewhere, and when it’s time to put titles to things, I’m way ahead of it.

In fact, I record the music, work on it, and then when it’s done, unlike almost everyone, I mix it, and have it done, and go on to the next piece. Everything is fresh, always fresh.

In other words, most people record music, and then wait until the end of the session, until all the [tracks are] recorded, and then go back to it and mix it. But I do all that the instant that [one track] is done.

Scott: So each piece of music is a self-contained thing?

Harold: Oh yes, absolutely, and then I go on to what’s next so I don’t have anything hanging over my head.

Scott: I’m thinking about some of the experiences you’ll have at the museum, looking at visual art, particularly at the Sunday October 7 artist talk where we will move our painting by Agnes Martin next to our Mark Rothko so they are side by side, as a backdrop for you.

Harold: That’s very auspicious, I’m very flattered. Thank you.

I’m not really influenced by music at all, I’m influenced by artists and their work, completely. Painting and architecture . . . I love going to museums, and I love art.

Scott: It seemed like an important thing since both of those visual artists are artists that you’ve referenced with music. You’ve also written a lot music inspired by the work of Billy Al Bengston, an artist from Southern California…How does visual art become an instigator, or a starting point for music for you? 

Harold: It’s the trigger. It does it all. I’m not really influenced by music at all, I’m influenced by artists and their work, completely. Painting and architecture…I love going to museums, and I love art. Billy Al has been a major influence in my work. I couldn’t explain why. And he’s a nice guy to boot, so that’s helpful.

Scott: I love the title of one of the works that you’ll be premiering at our October 6 concert: “Desert Train Whistles and Billy’s Dracula” 

Harold: (Laughs heartily) Isn’t that ridiculous? My son said “Dad, is the program long enough?” and I said “Maybe it could use one more piece.” So I was texting my friend Daniel Lentz, the composer, and I said  “Someone mentioned to me that I should write another piece, and I don’t know what I’m going to do, but I’m going to write something and it’s going to be called…” then I just improvised that title…“Desert Train Whistles and Billy’s Dracula” and he said “Well, that’s cool, go ahead and do it” and of course I went ahead and did it. And that’s it. That’s the end of the story.

Scott: And the instruments for that piece are so wonderful. It’s written for viola, chimes, and Fender Rhodes keyboard.

Harold: Yes, it’s a sound I’ve never heard together, so I will this time.

Scott: Did that combination of instruments similarly just come out of the title?

Harold: Oh yes, Immediately. I knew exactly what it was for, no question about it.

Scott: The music that you will be playing in the Peristyle on October 6 includes many references to visual artists, including the world premiere of a work for string quartet and celeste, the six parts of which are based on early 20^th Century artists.  Can you talk about how that came about?

Harold: It’s another one of those things that happens without a plan. I wrote over 7 months here in Joshua Tree – I went through a winter, spring, and finally a summer, and the summer drove me out because it’s just brutal there. I just picked and chose a certain kind of artist. Morris Graves is very moving and quiet and very distant. The same is true of [Odilon] Redon…he’s much more flamboyant for sure, but he’s not showing off with his colors. Wols, his paintings I admire very much, but you almost never see him in America at all, and the same with [Pierre] Tal-Coat. I have never seen a Tal-Coat in my life, but I’ve seen them online, and that’s as close as I’ve ever been to it.

Scott: If your schedule permits on Thursday, we can share with you some of the works on paper in our print study room, including some of these artists.

Harold: I would be so happy with that. I’m so grateful. Thank you.

Scott: One of the things we’ve arranged is a Master Class for faculty and students at Bowling Green State University on Friday, October 5 at 10am at the College of Musical Arts, which is open to the public too. Can you talk a bit about what you might be sharing with those students – some of whom are studying composition or performance, some percussionists, pianists, woodwind, brass, and string players.

Harold: It’s just occurred to me that I would encourage anyone to follow advice given to me once, and it worked out. Really seriously learn what you’re doing. And then change your mind and do whatever you want, but at least know that, and always fall back and use it. You’ll never be able to plan your life, but you can plan to have some preparation for it.

I would like very much to base most of what I’m talking about on what they are doing. They have an interesting life, it’s probably richer than mine. So, I want to find out what they are doing. They can tell me, and I’ll be very happy to listen.

Scott: There is a commitment to contemporary work and performance there at BGSU that is inspiring, so it’s an easy relationship to nurture here at the museum in the programs we do together.

Harold: I’m glad to hear that, because they are much hipper about music than I am. I don’t know what is happening in the music world, and I suppose that means I don’t really care all that much. But if it’s someone I’m talking with, then I start learning many things.

Scott: I was thinking about your experience at the very beginning, you were in the Army band with Albert Ayler and your music had this amazing jazz origin.

Harold: (Chuckles) I didn’t expect that to happen. I was the only one in the Army band who thought he (Ayler) wasn’t crazy. Most of the guys in the army band were studio musicians in Hollywood, they were very square and very good at what they did. They had a good life that was interrupted by the draft. Ayler was exactly the same person that he became known for, internationally.

Scott: He was pushing the envelope even then, from the very beginning.

Harold: Absolutely, oh my god. I was the only one who would talk about music with him. But we talked about jazz. He would refer to people like Coleman Hawkins and Lester Young as “those old guys”. He had disdain for traditional jazz/be-bop. He was an absolutely spontaneous musician.

Scott: Was there something in terms of improvisation or lessons for you that came out of that time with him?

Harold: I doubt it, except I don’t see how it could not have imprinted itself on my very being. He was a very nice guy. When we parted, it was a very sad day for me. I knew I would never see him again.

Scott: When I first listened to Pavilion of Dreams, that was my introduction to Marion Brown. Didn’t you play percussion on one of his albums?

Harold: I did, I sure did. His real percussion player was a well-known percussionist from the east coast but he was one of the guys who would sit around the table with Marion and his family and me, and he told me I was the first white man who ever stayed at his house.

Scott: Well, I am thrilled that this California kid will get the chance to meet you in Toledo.

Harold: That is so cool, Scott, thank you.

Scott: Anything else that you’d like folks here in Toledo to know?

Harold: I’m in Ohio for the first time of my life, so everything is going to be brand new, and I’m very, very happy to be there.